Black All Year
Black History Month plays a crucial role, but it's essential to acknowledge that the celebration of Black heritage and culture extends beyond just one month. It's a year-round commitment involving celebration, recognition, support, education, and advocacy. Hosting this podcast is Steph Edusei, a renowned leader, speaker, and coach. As an Ashanti-Geordie woman with mixed Ghanaian and English roots from the North East of England, she brings a unique perspective to the table.
Black All Year
Black All Year - Unveiling Inner Strength: Identity, Leadership, and Empowerment with Beverley Powell
Embracing who you are is the cornerstone of mental health advocacy, a theme that persists throughout our exchange with Beverley. We tackle the metaphorical "cape" that so many women of colour bear, considering how the pandemic has nudged us towards radical self-care and authenticity. Beverley's perspective on overcoming the weight of societal expectations reminds us of the importance of owning our full identities, imperfections and all. Her approach to leadership is not just about climbing the ranks; it's about nurturing a legacy that reverberates through the lives of others.
In creating spaces where everyone belongs, we highlight the role psychological safety plays in allowing individuals to shine. Beverley and I address the complex challenges that arise when discussing ethnicity and race, proposing that through self-enquiry and broadening our social circles, we grow and contribute to a more inclusive narrative. Our dialogue underscores the value of sharing experiences across generational lines, all while encouraging listeners to partake in the ongoing quest for connection and understanding. Beverley's vision is a reminder that our stories are the bridges that can unite communities and foster a legacy of progress and empowerment.
Guest info:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/beverley-powellukcoachleader/
Steph Edusei LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/steph-edusei/
Steph Edusei Instagram https://www.instagram.com/stephedusei/
Original music by Wayne C McDonald, #ActorSlashDJ
www.facebook.com/waynecmcdonald
www.mixcloud.com/waynecmcdonald
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Hello everybody, I am Steph Edusei and and I am the creator of Black All Year, which is here to remind everyone that Black issues and challenges, their achievements and experiences happen all year round and not just in Black History Month, even though this happens to be Black History Month. If you've missed previous events that are available on YouTube and as a podcast, and if you're watching or listening to this event after the event, please like and subscribe, as it makes sure you don't miss any future material and it helps others to find the content too. So I have been trying to get today's speaker on to Black All Year for a while and finally we are here. So Beverley Powell is a seasoned transformation leadership coach and associate coach consultant, and she has a profound dedication to fostering transformational leadership among global majority nurses. She draws from her rich Jamaican heritage and brings over 22 years of expertise in the strategic equality, diversity and inclusion domain. As a value driven Beverley, is deeply committed to her principles of social justice, radical self-care and inclusive leadership and empowerment, and she really does have a remarkable career, which has been marked by her ability to design and deliver inclusive leadership programs which are tailored to senior leaders and have a profound impact and, believe me, that is no mean feat.
Steph Edusei:Beverley's journey as an accredited life coach began a little while ago, 2005, and she's worked across the public and private sectors, and her strategic leadership has consistently delivered successful outcomes for individuals and for organizations. She notably coached a senior nurse of colour within the NHS into their very first senior leadership and management role, which really is a testament to her prowess in leadership development. And throughout her career, she's earned accolades for her unwavering commitment to equality, diversity and inclusion. So in 2007, her leadership and management work received formal recognition at a regional HMIP race equality conference and she was commended by Professor Gus John. In 2014, professor Udak Archibong of the University of Bradford acknowledged the contributions of their fourth annual conference, making diversity interventions count. And then, in 2014 as well, Beverley was recognised as one of the top 50 Black, asian and minority ethnic pioneers by the Health Service Journal for her pioneering work in the equality, diversity and inclusion arena.
Steph Edusei:She's got lots of scholarly contributions, which include the research study, a critical analysis of the transgender experience when accessing primary and secondary care within the NHS. So ethnicity is not her only horse, and she's demonstrated real commitment to advancing healthcare. In Beverley, took on the role as public governor for an NHS mental health trust, which really just shows how she is dedicated to accountability and policy review in senior leadership within the healthcare sector, and she just is a really inspirational, uplifting, positive person that I'm really pleased to have had the opportunity to talk to and that you're going to hear from today. And finally, I'll take a deep breath while Beverley squirms as we talk about her. Beverley has authored a fantastic book that is not quite out yet but is going to be the topic of today's conversation. So, Beverley, welcome.
Beverley Powell:Thank you, Steph, it's wonderful to be here. Yes, I do cringe a little bit and I think my gosh is that me. Did I do all this? Did I do all that? But yeah, thank you very much. Delighted to be here, finally to be here, and so happy to be here during Black History Month and Black Hall years. So thank you very much for inviting me, no problem at all.
Steph Edusei:as I said, we have been trying for some time to get Diaries, coordination things, so it's an absolute delight to have you. So, Beverley, tell us a little bit about obviously, that's your professional background that we've heard about, but tell us a little bit about yourself and your heritage, please.
Beverley Powell:A little bit about me. So I am of Jamaican heritage. My family mother and father came from Jamaica, from Clarendon, and arrived into the UK in Greater Manchester in the late 50s. So I'm a product of Jamaican heritage and a product really of Greater Manchester. But I moved over into Yorkshire for work. So I'm fiercely proud of being from Greater Manchester, equally fiercely proud of being of Jamaican heritage as well.
Steph Edusei:Yeah, so both sides of that border that we've got, you went Lancashire to Yorkshire, that's you know, brave lass, that's all I could say. So we said that you've authored this book. Just remind me of the title, because the Burning the Superwoman Cape that is part of today's title is part of the title of your book, isn't it?
Beverley Powell:Yeah, that's part of the book and it also, running alongside that is, around leadership and life lessons. So what it isn't is an autobiography. However, it's important that I put some context into some of the leadership and life lessons. There's so many books which I've seen out there of the water in America by some fabulous black women authors and equally some good books here in the UK. The authors tend to be based in London, and so I really wanted to put a slant on this because I think it's important.
Beverley Powell:My heritage, for a number of reasons and a number of experiences that I personally experienced over the border in Greater Manchester during my time as a little girl, and a lot of that shaped me. I know that Mayor Angelo has said in one of her books that you can you can refuse to be reduced by what has made you and shaped you, and some of these things have shaped me and made me an inclusive leader, a valus led leader than I am. However, I haven't been reduced by that. One of the other reasons is that as a little girl and I would have loved to have read a book by somebody who had a similar heritage, who came from where I came from in Greater Manchester, who had similar experiences and how they met with all challenges and how they got to where they are through the leadership career. So that's why I decided to do that and no another black author.
Beverley Powell:Woman author Toni Morrison says if there's a book there that you haven't read and it's in, you then write it, and I've been playing around with this concept for a long time and I decided, yes, that's what I want to do. I keep talking about various authors because I am touched by so many authors and have a library of books in so many different ways. I want to touch again on to Brenny Brown, who talks about unraveling. The midlife crisis is it's not negative, but it's a form of unraveling, and unraveling some of the experiences that you have had and want to share, and that really touched me and was an impetus as well to get into writing this book and it's just a form of unraveling is part of my leadership legacy. I think it's important to have something in terms of legacy and this is what I just want to give back to anybody who it may touch on in any way.
Steph Edusei:That's a long response to that, but yeah, it's great and I think it's interesting what you were saying there about how experiences from when you were younger and growing up have formed you, and I think you know we all know that's the case that you know you they called you formative years for a reason and how then, as you grow and develop and you look back on them, you can.
Steph Edusei:Maybe this is why I love what you put out on on social media, because I feel very much that you can choose how you respond to that and I think you know for me, I do think that that defines who I am, but I choose what that definition is and that's kind of what I heard from you. I mean, tell us a little bit about, about that kind of your formative years. What kind of experiences? Because we're roughly the same age in the same thought path and you you grew up in Greater Manchester, so a slightly more ethnically diverse area than the mind, but actually when we were growing up it wouldn't be anything like it is now. Yeah, tell us a little bit about those experiences.
Beverley Powell:Sure, I mean, without giving too much of my age away. My education was round about the time before the race relations act and so I had some not fantastic experiences in terms of my early years in school and I mentioned I write about that in the book, in my book by also look at the leadership, life lessons and how I got through that. I've also been shaped by a number of things that have happened around Greater Manchester For me as a little girl the Toxteth Riots, the Riots in Mosside as it was called back in the day, the reasons why, the tensions with the police and how that spilled out. And also I was shaped by the lack of role models and what I didn't see. What I didn't see is a little girl by my magazines, my comics on TV, how people like me in the black body was portrayed, and equally I was.
Beverley Powell:I would say that I am bicultural because at home my culture was staunchly Jamaican. I would go to church every Sunday at March every year in white and proud, and I was equally told and these were very early experiences of me being in a black body. I use that term because I'm currently reading the black hole for psychotherapist Resma Menikam, who talks about being in the black body experiences. My body was sorely healing that. But those experiences I was told from first generation was that you had to work twice as hard. Whatever you do in life. You will not explicitly told, you will never be accepted, but it was an experience that shaped me my early years to know that, being in a black body, I would never be equated to the same as my white colleagues. And also growing up and hearing as a young girl Jamaican little girl, hearing big people talk about me, hearing big people talk in the room, uncles and aunties talking about going back to Jamaica after the speech by Enoch Powell, the Rivers of Blood speech, and talking about how much we would get per family, what that would mean when we would go. I have no control in this.
Beverley Powell:I was a child born here of dual heritage and hearing those conversations and that I need to go there and shape me, shape my thinking and what I understood at home the reality of life and what I heard and saw and was treated growing up, being in a black body, knowing the setting was that I would have to work twice as hard, and seeing my aunties, uncles, grandmother, mother and so on and so forth. I worked for the hustle culture. Two or three jobs, studying, working at night, working during the day to do all that. That's what shaped me, that's what shaped my resilience, that's what shaped my resolve, that's what shaped my commitment. Equally, I have stepped out of some of that, but it's important for me when I write in a book to understand the context and the why and the years and what shaped me in my earlier formative years and how I got to where I am now, shaped by a number of unfortunately negative ways. But the plus is the strength of my mother and my grandmother. When I think about it to leave one part of the world and come here to set up a beautiful country like Jamaica on the invitation, of course, by this country to come here and what my aunties and uncles were met with Gosh, it's just amazing and fantastic.
Beverley Powell:When I go back to further into my own heritage, I'm really diving into this stuff. It's around understanding that I'm a product of ancestors who, for 250 years, were shackled. I'm a product of slavery, who was shackled, raped, pillaged, worked more hours than anybody else, had their identity stripped away from them. My surname is a slave name. When I was transported. My ancestors were transported, stripped from all identity. So that is the product and it's important that I understand that for my own diverse inclusion and my identity, to never forget that. But equally, as I sit here before you, I have shaped myself, so I refuse to reduce by some of those things and some of those things have shaped me for the good.
Steph Edusei:I loved when we were talking and I said what's the title of your book?
Steph Edusei:and you said about burning the superwoman cave and I loved that imagery because I think a lot of the things that you've talked about and in the promotion for this event I talked about the quote, and it's Elizabeth Whitten I think it's Elizabeth Whitten who said that as a woman you have to get half as much credit as a man.
Steph Edusei:You have to work twice as hard and be twice as smart, and I think that's absolutely true. So I think that a lot of what you say in the book is actually relevant generally to women. But I think where that then gets shaped even further by our ethnicity is the fact that if it's twice as hard for a woman, it's at least four times as hard for a black woman, because you've got that layer of exactly what you were hearing of being told you have to be better, and if you're anything like me, it's almost like you have to be perfect. You can't make a mistake as a black woman in profession, because if you do, then it's obviously a sign that you don't belong there, but also it's damaging for every other black woman in that environment, because it's a kind of see, we can't trust these people. And is that what you mean by the cape? It's that kind of I've got to be, all of these things.
Beverley Powell:There are a number of reasons why I use the analogy of the cape and I use the analogy of the cape lots of times for women, but equally there's a double bond on the seams of the cape for a woman of colour. And there's one thing I was thinking about what my family mother would say, that you need to have to be twice as good. When I was going to school or Sunday, my shoes, uniforms polished because I was told that I had to look twice as good to be treated the same. So I always knew that. So what that I felt over the years when I reflect on this is that a lot of my creativity difference, anything that was different I would throw a cape over that to be treated or want to be treated the same as I didn't want to be seen as different. So I would use a cloak to hide and actually numb down a lot of things pain, happiness or what. I would numb that down because I felt that wasn't allowed and to be treated differently don't laugh too loud how I wear my hair, how I dress, stepping out of my true Beverley power and moving into a system which would appreciate and recognize me because I've done myself, done myself down. But what I've realized having thrown away the cape although certainly over during COVID I decided to throw away the cape what I've realized over that is that there is a health warning here because when you throw away the cape, all the things that you dumbed down will come to the surface. Because I was always hiding behind the cape, everything was fine, everything's okay. Yes, I'll do that, want to be wanted, needed all that and dumbing down and I lost myself. The cape lost me. So I threw away the cape and decided to do that work and that really meant some deep work of all the things that I have hidden away. And it does take an evidence that I do write in the book, write it in the beginning. And there is a health warning here that when you, if you choose to do that, you do need the support of others if you've had professionals. So there's a.
Beverley Powell:Being trauma informed is a large piece of part of my work when I look at race, when I look at difference, being trauma informed and understanding. That is super important, which is why the work of Resma Manicum and understanding race, racial trauma, the mind, body and the heart is it's deep, it's deep work. There are exercises in there, but it's understanding the impacts of trauma and what I probably didn't realize was not getting in touch with myself. I've numb that down and actually there was a lot of stuff there and there's a lot of beautiful stuff that I've realized my creativity, my identity was part of my superpower and I was dumbing myself down in this cloak, which I call superpower, superwoman of my true identity. And so I rejoice now of maybe me and this, as Brennan Brown talks about this unraveling, and maybe it's at a time of my life where it's important to unravel. But equally, I'm recognized whilst I do that.
Beverley Powell:I'm a big fan of the author, the Black feminist, audre Lorde, and Audre Lorde talks about taking radical self-care. It's super important as Black women, as we colour. Radical self-care, not talking about walking around the block. You've got to get radical with this stuff because it impacts on us so much more because of the system that we work in or living, the access to services we only have to look at health inequalities and how it impacts on certain protective, particular protected characteristics. Why is that when we deliver the same service but we're impacted on regional variations? This is a whole reason why it's time to get rid of this superwoman cloak and that actually I mentioned this in a conference.
Beverley Powell:I was talking about the imposter syndrome and I was invited to attend a women of colour conference and I ran two workshops and in that I said that I am perfectly imperfect. And that's a big deal for me to say that, because much of my life I wanted to be perfect, but now I'm happy being perfectly imperfect and embracing all of me. I'm not part of me hiding part of me under a cloak and, as I've done that in the book I talk about the leadership journeys and the shock and surprise that have been appointed as the senior rules. But actually there are no surprises. When I've mapped out my own career journey, that's been through work, commitment and dedication. But this imposter syndrome, I still couldn't believe.
Beverley Powell:When it actually pointed out the work that it actually done and did a good job, the imposter syndrome still came up and actually, steph, I have a problem with the term imposter syndrome because it realises it, so I'm twisting and turning with it.
Beverley Powell:I use that because most people recognise it, but the notion of syndrome as though it's in medical condition doesn't sit well with me and again, I mentioned that in my book. But for the purpose of the book I do talk about imposter syndrome and why is that? And we'll have variations around that in terms of sexual orientation. I think that's powerful. And again, how I was shaped by my family who came from Jamaica and the laws and their experiences and then coming here and how I would hear conversations about people who are different and that I have chosen to take a different path to life. And again, because I'm passionate about mental health, which is why it's chosen to be a governor in your mental health trust and those things are powerful and it's embracing the whole self. If I can embrace the whole self, this is a piece of humanitarian work, piece of humanitarian work in my own house.
Steph Edusei:And Beverley, I mean there's so much there and what you said that I wanted to talk about. I'm going to do a very quick advert because you mentioned trauma-informed and we do have another event and because it's Black History Month, I thought I'll do to you, but so we have another event on the 24th of October about trauma-informed organizations, so people can book onto that now, but I'll mention that again later.
Steph Edusei:I think imposter syndrome really, really interesting, and I did a talk last week and there was someone there that had never heard the term before, a woman that never heard the term before but, it described exactly what she was doing, so I think it's always worthwhile just mentioning imposter syndrome is that feeling of self-doubt, the feeling that you don't belong somewhere and that you're going to get found out at any moment. So you're an imposter and you're going to get found out at any moment, and I would completely agree with you what I normally say now, because I talk a lot about imposter syndrome and I normally say now yes, it is something that's internal, it's a feeling, but the reason that women so often get it and people of color so often get it is because there are lots of messages out there that are basically telling us to sit down, be quiet, don't brag, and that we don't fit in and that we don't belong. So is it any wonder that we then don't talk about our achievements?
Steph Edusei:and think we don't belong or we don't fit in, especially when you're talking about positions of power. And I was just talking to a white woman a few weeks ago who was basically saying she has had it said to her face that this type of job should be done by a man and you kind of go really it's 2023 but it's still happening. So sometimes it's internal because of the message that we hear, but sometimes actually, when we get that feeling that we're not welcome here, it's because we're not welcome there, so we don't. I always say don't beat yourself up because you've got imposter syndrome. It's done to us, but but there are ways to to get over it and I think that the I think that the last thing within what you were talking about that I just like to kind of pick a little bit more is this experience or because you felt that you had to fit in to succeed, that you cloaked yourself and that that I did throw a cape around yourself.
Steph Edusei:I have something similar and I talked about when I was went into like my first bit more senior position in the adversaries and I tried to dress and look like a white middle-aged man and strangely enough, I wasn't very successful at that. But I wore dog suits, I wore white shirts, I didn't wear makeup, I didn't really wear jewelry, I had my hair tie back and I straightened it. I straightened my hair for decades and and that decision, when you take that decision off, you know what I'm gonna go into work with curly hair.
Steph Edusei:Oh, the fear that I felt of people nobody's gonna respect me. So I really understand that. I mean, what was it with you that just you were talking about doing lockdown? What was it? You just went, you know what Cause. You know if anybody that can't see Beverley and listening on the podcast you've got a fantastically colored top on really love design. You've got beats. You've got fantastic curly hair, big earrings. You know you look wonderful, but I dare say that's not the professional. And did you have a professional, you, and a home you?
Beverley Powell:Totally. Yes, steph, you found me out. Yeah, I almost had to wardrobe. I almost had to wardrobe the weekend. Yes, I would.
Beverley Powell:I wear lots of head wraps and African cultural dresswear and then in work it's a corporate look and it reminds me of and again I refer to this in one of the chapters in the book around my appointments into category B in those prisons to deliver on diversity, after the untalented mode of the Muslim teenager Zayn Mubarak, and I remember that because that was a critical time for me in terms of identity, because we talk about how you shared your example there, and I believe that I became hyper-muscular in a men's prison, a woman leading a six-foot-three white man, race equality officer, foreign national officer, disability officer, the prison regime, all those walking on the wings.
Beverley Powell:So I didn't feel it was a picked up by friends outside of work and they asked me what's happened to you, Beverley? I can see it in your eyes. You're not the same person and I didn't realise but it was picked up by friends that I had changed so much. But I think that was probably another clock of somebody working within that system, challenging outdated behaviours and also working in a prison. The prison population was 30% who looked like me who were black as well. So there's a number of levels. And again, when I go back to being trauma-informed, perhaps under that clock there was a lot of stuff going on for me, but as a leader, I continued to do what I was advised to do, be part of the strategy, all those things, but my true identity was never, never, ever revealed.
Steph Edusei:Yeah, and that thing that you said about the creativity. So actually, from an employer perspective, if that's the way that people feel that they've got to look and behave a certain way, you're getting a tiny part of that person and that person's put so much effort into being that and you're missing out on the richness that is you. Your employer's missed out on all of that because the environment that you're working in was making you behave, be somebody that you're not, or even just a small part of who you were.
Beverley Powell:It's also right, Steph, and that's why, in my coaching practice, I'm a big fan of taking a strength-based approach. I'm not here as a check what you don't have but I'm wanting, as a transformation leadership coach, to bring out your positives or work with. Let's work with what you've got. Let's use that as a base line. So it's important to look at strengths, and I do that in coaching myself or care-beveling. What are your strengths? Let's use that and turn the mindset away from the negativities and using that as a starting point to build somebody up. And I think that's super important In terms of systems not recognizing or only getting a slice of the wonderful talent of our women of color. There's something about a sense of belonging. If you feel that you belong within the system, within your team, within a group, you are gonna bring your best selves. You're gonna bring your A game. One-on-one, You're gonna bring your A game and you're gonna do the best, the same as everybody else. And what I found, unfortunately, with many coaches, is that there is a fear, base in some instances across different systems, of bringing their whole self to work, A fear and also, with that fear, there's no woman who they can look up to. So they're the first and maybe, when I think about my own career, in many ways I've been the first in many areas, like the first woman, senior woman, to work in that prison, the first to do many things, and I haven't thought twice about it. So there's something about taking risk, Taking risk.
Beverley Powell:Or, equally, Brenny Brown talks about taking that risk and it's a form of liberation. So every time I do this like the first time I'm doing it live today I see that as a form of liberation, Freeing myself and liberating myself. So I think it's quite powerful to take the risk. Take the risk, but also I would suggest that always a tip is to have somebody running alongside with you, travel alongside with you if that's a coach or somebody who understands from the lens of blackness or understands diverse, to make sure you've got someone to ride along with you. But take that risk and live. So, taking away this care, I'm living my best life to the best ability that I can.
Steph Edusei:And I think that thing of being the first and being very open speaking out and the book that's gonna come out, you are really kind of blazing that trail. And how does that feel? Because being the first, I agree it could be really liberating. It can also be really challenging and I often see people not recognizing that they are in that really trailblazing position. So what's that like for?
Beverley Powell:you. I don't really think. I don't tend to think about at the moment I tend to think about.
Beverley Powell:This is something that I'd like to do. I ask myself the why. So we've got to think about it, think about it, sign this in why, the what, the how. Ask myself those questions I did mention at the beginning of this conversation. When I took away the call, I knew that this work was deep work that was coming up.
Beverley Powell:So, whilst it was a trailblazer in those areas, I also need to make sure that I have somebody who's riding alongside with me. I think that's super important. One of the mistakes or not a mistake when I think about my early years as a senior manager in a prison, I didn't have anybody riding alongside me. I was going off theory. So I had academic capabilities, I had leadership and management capabilities, but the emotional piece and the impact of stories that you would hear on work and some very dangerous people that was in a clock, that was all under a clock. So I think when you think about breaking your ground, it's important that you think about, well, who do I need around me, need a team of people around me, if it's a mentor, if it's an ally or whoever, so I ensure on this leg of my journey, I have a book mentor, I have a variety of good people who get me, who understand the black body, who understand trauma impact. All those things help along that journey.
Beverley Powell:I'm also more focused and I know I've referred to this in our conversation Steph around self-care, because when I think about my family and others, or women of colour and the hustle culture, there's two schools of thought of this. So I hear and see lots of women of colour who are in the hustle culture great. And there are some people who are saying, actually I've done enough of that and maybe it's because I'm underneath where I'm saying no more. So I'm a big fan of the work by Tristan Hersey who talks about the NAP Ministry Taking time to NAP. I'm not feeling guilty. I could never do that because I never saw it. I never saw it in my grandmother, I never saw it in my mothers, I never saw it in my aunts. It was always something to do and maybe sometimes I think that could be running on trauma. So if you stop, you have to think about things. So it could be a school of thought. It could be running on trauma and keep going, keep going, keep going, to the detriment of health and particularly with it.
Steph Edusei:There's something as well about if you're busy and you're going the whole time, I think absolutely right, it means you're not looking at other stuff. But also, to put that imposter syndrome lens on there as well In the West busy, equals successful. So I remember I left the NHS, I went to a colleague's funeral and I bumped into loads of former colleagues and it was like I can't wait, how are you doing? And they all went oh, busy, oh, it's manic, oh, and I was like you're making me really depressed, because I was like people ask me and I was like, oh great, you know, I'm really enjoying the job and it's fantastic. And I had done, started to do this work that you're talking about and shedding a lot of that that you know, starting to set fire to my cloak, and so I think this thing of the hustle, hustle, 24, seven it's about this. Well, I'm hustling, so therefore I'm worthy, whereas actually I'm with you. I'd much rather have a nap, because I know I'll be far more effective if I take care of myself Totally.
Beverley Powell:Yeah, there's something about giving yourself permission. That's one of the things that I've learned and I talk about this again in my book, about giving yourself permission to do nothing. And now, if people say, what did you do at the weekend, on Sunday, I did nothing, or the most I may do is I've gone out for a three, four hour walk, but I've done nothing and I've given myself permission. And what I've learned is that when I give myself permission, it's okay, but if I don't give myself permission, it's that impostercy. What are you doing? Sit down, you should be doing this, you should be doing that. But I've got into the mindset where I give myself permission to do, to be, give myself permission to be.
Beverley Powell:The Nap Ministry talks about that a lot and talks about our ancestors. So again, the ancestry piece for me is super important because they were driven by work. When I think about slavery, you couldn't have a rest, you had to eat or whatever if you had food to work on the plantation and all the rest of it. So it's born in me through ancestry, through family, through mother, through from her womb of trauma or whatever, through me. So I've had to rewire, rewire my thinking and my mindset, and this is where I am today. So I'm on the journey. I'm part way through the journey, I'm really enjoying it and getting creative. So I'm really enjoying the book and writing in the book as well, right.
Steph Edusei:So some of the people that are listening to this will not be black women or women of colour. Some of them will not be women. What is it they can take away? How can they help? Because we've talked a little bit about that feeling safe to be yourself and things like that what would be your kind of tips for change agents who are going to help and walk alongside us?
Beverley Powell:Yeah, I think there is certainly something about anybody who's on this line is to do the work, because the worst thing that can happen is asking somebody all these questions. The information is out there. So to get involved in doing the work, to listen or hold space for colleagues, hold space for colleagues. Branny Brown talks about sitting with discomfort.
Beverley Powell:This stuff is really, it can be uncomfortable Because when somebody throws away the cloak and then they suddenly want to talk about something. It may come up in so many different ways and yet this narrative around the black woman being aggressive assertive. So I would invite anybody who's in this space to listen, hold space, listen without judgement and work towards a collective sense of belonging for everybody, a collective sense of belonging and I think it's just step by step. With that there's something about trust. So we will always look at. I can't speak on behalf of everyone we've come, but psychological safety is powerful. So to enable a sense of belonging, to enable someone to come out of work and be there through some to contribute, is incumbent on whoever's holding that space to recognise psychological safety and importance of that.
Steph Edusei:And I think that that thing about discomfort and we've had a few guests over the kind of year and a half whatever that would be doing this now who have talked about sitting without discomfort, and it's something that I like to talk about a lot of people perhaps of all the protected characteristics which is a term I also hate, by the way but of find ethnicity and race really difficult to talk about and if they are not from the global majority, so white people tend to feel really uncomfortable in this space and talking about this stuff, and that process that goes on when somebody says something about their experience as a person of colour and the triggers that saw you saying I'm racist, can be really, really difficult. And actually the thing that I find is that people go into this internal discussion about this person saying I'm racist. I'm not racist, I'm a nice person, I'm a good person. There's a fantastic I wish I could remember who it was with but Bradley Brown does do a fantastic interview with a black woman about that and about how actually, you become obsessed with yourself and suddenly listening to what the individual is talking about.
Steph Edusei:I would also say though yeah, you might be, you might have racist or prejudice thoughts. I have biases and prejudices. I'm really aware what they are and therefore I take action to make sure that my biases don't impact on my behaviour and my choices. So if if somebody's saying that they don't, I don't believe them.
Steph Edusei:So it's okay, it's okay, if you've got those biases, it's not okay to act on them, but have that discomfort and really, outside of that conversation, think about what is it that made you feel uncomfortable. I think that's a really important piece of work for people to do. Why did I feel uncomfortable? What was it? What buttons were they pressing that meant I felt so uncomfortable?
Beverley Powell:Yeah, it's almost. It's like a self enquiry. Taking that self enquiry, what is it? And also Resma Mannequin talks about how does it feel in the body? Because quite often many people can read about it. You can read about it and be theoretical, so it's all in the head, but it's important to feel it, sit with it. How does that feel? And undertake that self enquiry. Why do I feel uncomfortable? What is it about that? I'd also probably invite people who are listening in, without it being performative, and if you don't already, is to have a diverse community of friends. Many people will probably have one community of friends. I think that's the best way that we can learn. However, it's not to say that one person's view, so the view of Bethel Powell is therefore the view of every black woman. You know Chimander Adichie Adichie. The author talks about the danger of the single story.
Steph Edusei:So everybody, I have a black friend and they don't mind.
Beverley Powell:Yeah, everybody has a different story, so there's a danger of that. But I'd invite people to broaden your community, your diversity of your community, and probably just have those friendships and get those understandings not an interview sort of friendship, but broaden community, get to understand these matters and understand it, because the danger often is if you are not from that particular group, that community group, you won't say anything. And how can we get to have dialogue when we're fearful of each other? We have many commonalities and it's the differences that divide us, in my view.
Steph Edusei:And Ngosi Cole, who did our Power and Privilege event that you can listen to or watch online. She introduced me to a really interesting exercise where you sit and you take your family out of it, so family doesn't count, but you sit and you think of the five people that you are closest to or you come into contact with most and you do kind of what gender are they or ethnicity, or what age are they, what social backgrounds they come from? And I did it for five and then I expanded it and what I found really interesting was I have different people of different sexualities and people of different sexual orientation to have people who are different ages, different ethnicities, mainly female. I have very few male friends in my social group. Now I know why that is and I'm not going to go into why it is, but I know why that is.
Steph Edusei:But it made me think I really need to expand this so I have more male influence around me. That's not work.
Beverley Powell:Totally. Yeah, I've undertaken that exercise and have a diverse range and I've often wondered how come I've got a diverse range of friends. And maybe it's because they are othered or they identify as others so we have commonalities and not differences, or maybe it's that. But yeah, I think it's a really good exercise and something as part of a self-inquiry around this work and then to understand, really understand the issue. So I'd be saying, move out of the theoretical stuff, drop down into the heart, feel things, ask, remain curious, stay out of judgment, remain curious and those questions around you know what does a sense of belonging mean to you, being in this space, me here being presenting my full self, all those things and have those questions. It's a simple conversations and the simple acts that can help bring people, communities, together.
Steph Edusei:So I'm going to ask you a minute just for some tips on how to do this, how to start burning that cape. But if anybody's got any questions, you can either pop them in the chat or raise your hand and we can bring you in All comments. Doesn't have to be a question, it could be a comment. So please feel free to do that if you'd like to. But come on then, Beverley, while we're waiting for people to come up with some questions, what would be your tips for getting started?
Steph Edusei:on this journey other than the self care. I think the self care is really important in every part of life.
Beverley Powell:Yeah, sure, steph.
Beverley Powell:So I think, as it's Black History Month and the theme is around women of colour. I'd advise everybody who's online to follow somebody who's not following, who is of colour. Women of colour. Look at what they have to say, look at their thoughts, their insights. Have a read of that follow. If anybody isn't reading any books, I would start to look at engaging in one of the books maybe one of the books that I wrote. But equally, it's important to read books which are contrary to your thought processes as well, so you can formulate that critical thinking and those arguments for and against. So one I would recommend follow somebody who you don't follow already and support them. It's a tough gig out there for women of colour. Read and, yeah, I think, just keep it simple and then move on from that and be curious, be curious.
Steph Edusei:And I would say for people who are, who are readers, podcasts are a great one, really really good, because I mean, I listen to podcasts all the time in the car, so it's that I read. When I read, I tend to read to relax.
Beverley Powell:So I read rubbish.
Steph Edusei:But when it comes to either audiobooks or podcasts I really like and I listen to them when I'm in the car, and it's that's my way of getting that knowledge transferred.
Beverley Powell:Sure, one of the audio books that I would recommend, although I'm part way through, is the NAP Ministry by Trisha Hersey. You know, having rest and wise, that's great. I'm in a coffee shop, I just put that on and listen to the NAP Ministry and get creative. I don't if any, not not everybody's a family journey and you don't have to write, you can draw. But get creative. So often in the corporate world we're busy doing reports or corporate emails. Get creative and go with what your heart says. This is not woo woo stuff, but get creative. Write it out without any fools. Just write it all out and read it back. So get creative. I would suggest as well.
Steph Edusei:Yeah, yeah, and you know that creativity can come in all different types of ways. Because you know people say to me you know draw and I was like, no, really my sister's fantastic about it, but actually so for me it's movement, and sometimes actually just in. I think it's one of the things with movement. People think you have to do dance steps. You don't sometimes just put the music on and dancing in the kitchen like you don't care the kind of emotion and stuff that that can get going when you genuinely just move, is great. So I think, whatever's your thing, do it, and do it without worrying about what people are going to think about it.
Beverley Powell:So you must be watching me. You're watching me in my kitchen.
Steph Edusei:I love the playlist on and seeing where the music takes me. It's great.
Beverley Powell:It's great. I bought a tambourine two weeks ago and sometimes when I get into hearing a song that I like in the kitchen thank goodness the neighbors are proximity away I get the tambourine and maybe it's a little girl you saw the tambourine when she's at church but when I feel it, it's the noise and it's the movement for me. I just get in the energy. So it's not sort of intentional. If I feel that the tambourine's in the living room, grab the tambourine.
Steph Edusei:Yeah, I do think people are far too worried about doing the right steps and I say this is a dance teacher, that's not important at all. The right steps are not the right steps.
Beverley Powell:The right steps, the energy the vibe, the energy, the vibe, you know the link system. Get it moving. Particularly as we're hybrid working, Lots of us are sat there for hours. So, yes, we can go and have a walk, but do something different. Get the energy moving, yeah, definitely.
Steph Edusei:And I think you know that thing of. It's a very similar thing when you say about journaling and things just sitting and writing, not editing it, just writing and just seeing. I have done that occasionally and being really quite shocked by what I've ended up writing, because one thought triggers another thought triggers another thought and I've gone. Oh, I didn't realize that was going to come out at all.
Beverley Powell:It's totally yeah, when I'm in nature. My freshest thinking, strangely enough, comes when I'm in nature. I was having a conversation with somebody yesterday. They said the freshest thinking comes to them when they're in water or by water. So it's whatever switches your your tap on, you know?
Steph Edusei:Brilliant, so we've got a couple of minutes left now and I am just going to really quickly tell you about our next event. So we've got, we have black all year, unlocking compassion, trauma, informed organizations, which is so I didn't actually could say. You know, this is all by design. I didn't realize how relevant these sessions are going to be together in October, but they really are. So if you can join on the 24th of October, come along, it will be recorded, it will be available on YouTube and as podcast and the link is in the chat to book for that.
Steph Edusei:But in November we've got a session on internalized oppression and that you know, when we sometimes wonder how people can say what they say about people of color when they're all people of color themselves I'm not going to mention politicians and that's going to really look at that and help us and pick that and actually how to work through it and get past that. So that you know both of those sessions I hope will be as informative and as useful as this one has been. So you know, Beverley, it has been fantastic. I want to know now that you've kind of got rid of that, okay, was it completely gone? Does it still keep popping up?
Beverley Powell:So what does that?
Steph Edusei:feel like now it's gone.
Beverley Powell:Oh, steph, it's strange, but it feels. I feel lighter. I feel lighter, I feel more in touch with my emotions and, strangely enough, I feel more emotional and I don't think that's anything. I'm past menopause but, however, I feel more in touch with things. Yeah, I feel more in things, touch me more, which wouldn't have done previously and probably I wouldn't mask it. I did talk about numbing down feelings, so I feel lighter, I feel more in touch with me and it's sort of the little girl and Beverley are now connected. I've rescued Beverley and I think that's important for me for my story, that I have rescued Beverley. It's all came with together. So, yeah, it feels great, great.
Steph Edusei:You know, I love that because I think there is something. I've got a picture of me when I was about seven or eight and I'm away with the, the brownie guides, on holiday and I've got a apron around the middle and I'm doing a ballet dance in front of everybody. And to me I might actually be a little bit old, I might be the eight or nine, but to me that is this confident, bright girl who thought she was going to run the world and somewhere between eight and about 11, 12, certainly 13, she started to diminish that. That cloak started to come on and and that idea of me now going back and kind of holding that, that me when I was young, is just fantastic. I love, I love some of your imagery. It's brilliant. I'm going to pinch it all and but yeah, that you know.
Steph Edusei:And I think that's that thing of if you're younger, not having to go through what we've gone through and not, not not letting that cave get so big and so heavy, but if you are of a certain age or you know it's not too late, it's not too late to share that. So thank you so much, Beverley. And you know really has been fantastic and I knew it was going to be a good one and haven't let me down. And I just want to say to people obviously we've got the events coming up and but if you're watching this on YouTube or listening on the podcast, please like and subscribe to make sure that you see our future events and it also helps others to find this stuff too. And thank you everybody for your time and your attention. Thank you, Beverley, it's been absolutely brilliant and I'm sure we will catch up online soon. So take care everybody. Bye.
