Black All Year - Dancing Through Barriers: Exploring Racial Spaces, Collaboration, and Mental Health Through Dance

I had a heart-to-heart chat with the incredible Martin Hilton, renowned dancer and dance teacher who passionately shared his journey into the world of dance. His dance story begins from his school days, where he was exposed to creative dance as a part of the curriculum, which instilled in him an appreciation for the art form. Martin's journey serves as an eye-opener to how schools can utilize themes like cricket and the West Indies to make dance appealing to both genders, challenging traditional gendered perceptions of dance.

Our conversation takes a deep turn as we tackle the subject of Black spaces and collaboration in dance. Can you imagine the relief of being in a space where your guard is completely down? We both share these experiences, recounting moments spent in predominantly white spaces and the contrast of being in Black-only spaces. We delve into the importance of collaboration in choreography and the almost spiritual connection that Black-only spaces foster.

In the final leg of our discussion, we touch on a topic that demands more attention – the mental health and alcoholism struggles often faced by Black men. Martin reveals how his dual heritage has influenced his creative expression, and how he's used this influence in his latest film. The film addresses these serious issues by featuring a Black protagonist, prompting a vital dialogue about mental health and alcohol dependency within the black community. Our chat rounds up on a reflective note about the importance of creating safe spaces for expression, emphasizing that the journey of creation is as potent as the final product. So, join us on this enlightening journey of dance, collaboration, and mental health.

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Original music by Wayne C McDonald, #ActorSlashDJ
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Chapters

• 0:09 Black All Year
• 15:43 Black Spaces and Collaboration in Dance
• 25:15 Alcoholism and Black Men's Mental Health
• 44:00 Dance and Performance in Challenging Topics

Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

dance, Black, dancers, community, trauma, lockdown 

SPEAKERS

Martin Hilton, Steph Edusei

Steph Edusei  00:08

Hi, everybody.

Steph Edusei  00:09

I'm Steph Edusei. And I am the creator and host of Black All Year. And I know I say this every time, but Black All Year was something that I created because what I would find is that people were really keen to talk about Black issues and experiences during October Black History Month. But then the rest of the year tended to forget about it and move on to something else. And I used to say, well, surely we should be talking about this stuff all year round, because we are Black All Year and nobody did anything about it. And therefore, I thought, well, then I'm gonna have to, and that's how this was born. So, we have online live events, we have a podcast so this will be available as a podcast and also on YouTube. So, if you are listening or watching, please like and subscribe because it means that you will get to see future content. But it also helps other people find the content as well. So, it's really important. So today, I'm delighted we have Martin Hilton with us. Hi, Martin.

Martin Hilton  01:11

Hiya Steph

Steph Edusei  01:12

 And Martin began dancing as a child by joining the Harehills Youth dance club, and then went on to train at the Northern School of contemporary dance. And I probably shouldn't say this because it gives away your age but in 1998, was named the CNA cosmopolitan young dancer of the year. After graduating he joins Nikon Blanche Dance Company in Bergen, Norway, and then went on to work and perform with companies such as skeins Dance Theatre in Malmo, Sweden and Mary Berlin in Tally in Arthas, Denmark and I've don't want any corrections on my pronunciation of those places. Martin has also worked and performed with various companies in the UK, including Phoenix Dance Theatre, and he's built really strong connections with industry is taught contemporary dance throughout his career all over the world, in professional educational, custodial, and community settings. He holds a master's degree in arts, business and creativity and as a core fellow having completed the leadership programme in 2012. And he found a gateway studio CIO in 2012. in Gateshead, which is a project which offers a wide community dance programme while supporting local professional artists. And there's a whole lot more I could have said about you there, Martin, but I know people feel really uncomfortable when we start to talk about them, when you hear your kind of whole CV described in front of you like that. It's quite impressive.

Martin Hilton  02:41

Oh, thank you. Yeah, yes, you hear it, but you start getting to these ages, you realise that a lot more than you could remember.

Steph Edusei  02:51

But you know, you should own it, you should own it. So, tell us, how did you get into dance in the first place? Martin, what was it that took just probably what a lot of people do when they're young, which is dancing around in their sitting room and with their mates and things, what took you to do that.

Martin Hilton  03:07

I was really, really lucky. So in our school, we handled elite dance, creative dance was part of our physical education curriculum. We had a fantastic teacher called Marvin Sr. And he decided that creative dance helps a lot of the pupils in the school. Just get in touch with their creativity really. And everything developed, developed from there and the headmaster.  At the Time was very supportive. It was one of those environments where we would have a school production and at the end of the year, the production would involve the  network  wood work department involved  home economics they do , the costumes it involved the music department. So, it was a it was one of those projects, one of those things where everyone got involved. If you weren't interested in dance , you could help  with  the lighting, the staging, those kinds of things, build a set. So it was a it was a whole school project that took much half the year. So everyone at the school had to had to  partake in  dance, as  part of  physical education. But then as you only got into the later years in the school, you could make a choice. And if you chose dance, obviously you were in the wall. And I said I'll explain that in a minute. And you could join a youth group, LG dance. And for me, I think the moment when I decided I really was I'm a softy. We were playing rugby on a frozen pit.  Remember   being tackled and  bracing my eye in the shards on this frozen pit  and looking up peeing through the...  Looking into the  the school   building and  seeing  everybody  warm  dancing. I was like Na, this is crazy. I am too tough for this. And I chose dancing.  That was it never looked back.

Steph Edusei  05:00

And I mean, that's really progressive that the school was doing dance for everybody, because I was just talking about this at the weekend, but just how gendered things can be in schools. And it's kind of like, oh, well, the girls can do dance, and the boys can do rugby or whatever. And that still happens. And even in 2023, you still have that, that it's kind of boys aren't allowed to do dance, because why would they want to do that? And, and girls aren't allowed to do every other thing. So, having that kind of environment where you everybody was encouraged to do it? Because it is great physical exercise, isn't it?

Martin Hilton  05:36

Yeah. And I think, you know, I think a lot of it has to do with how we deliver dance and the perspective around it, how people view it. When we started dance was our storytelling. That  is the reality. So, you know, we've been, we will have themes like

Steph Edusei  05:59

 oh your voice dropped out there as if we hear you,

Martin Hilton  06:01

we will have themes around like, boys, game of cricket, you know, and obviously, all the boys were interested in cricket. So yes, I guess today it would be football. But then you know, the stimulus works like slot when everybody everybody wants to be evicted. So cricket was a  thing. You know, so the themes around the creativity were across the board, interesting to both young men and young women, and we will alternate and a lot of the themes, not gender based, no  it was just , good stories, good things good, games  that everyone could get behind. And it was strange, because at that time in Leeds, you know, it was, it was probably more boys  than  girls interested in  dance . It was one of those things that held that actually were more prone to getting bullied if he wasn't dancing, because  dancing, dancing was the thing. It was like if he wasn't dancing, like you have to be involved. So then you'd go to the lighting or something to add all the top runners, athletes, football players, rugby players, they were all the best dancers , and it was in our tables. And it was a cool thing to do  if  ain’t dancing you’re missing.

Steph Edusei  07:28

Yeah. And it's, it's that thing, isn't it of the difference that a good teacher can make. So actually in making something cool, something that people want to do. And it just creates this kind of community where everybody wants to be a part of it, because it's fun. And I love that idea of getting all the different departments involved in the production. So because not everybody wants to perform. But actually, you can still be a part of this thing. That is really good and really great. And, yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, dance. I think one of the reasons that I love  dance  so much is it, it can be so many things. So it can just be something that you sit and you look at and you go oh my god, that's beautiful. Or that's, you know, that makes me feel angry or whatever it whatever emotion it is that stirs up in you. But I think a lot of us forget that it can actually be very narrative as well, it can, it does tell stories. And I mean, as a ballet teacher, I would automatically go to the ballet because that's what they do. They are telling a story through dance. But a lot of people forget that they just think it's kind of what you what you see when you see kind of commercial dancers where you go, that's really clever.

Martin Hilton  08:34

Yeah, I mean, it's, I think, especially when it comes to contemporary modern dance, we went, you know, we always go for fights, you know, and, and I think modern dance went through this very abstract phase where everything negotiation will be like what was that, you know, I have no idea. You see bodies flying around stage. And guess what here and, you know, it'd be like, you it's almost like, you would have to have previous knowledge about what modern contemporary dance is really about. And he went to this really abstract phase where it was just about physicality and direction on stage. And a lot. I think a lot of audience members were at a loss as to what they walked in, and I wouldn't new in most of that there was a lot most of the time, especially coming through as a young young pupil, who was very much into the story based on the  story  based  dance. 

Steph Edusei  09:39

Yeah.

Martin Hilton  09:40

 You know, it was, I mean, it's changed again, we've gone through lots of different paths. But then we went through, especially in education and education, both in schools and community are able to call up our  tools  based work. That's the only way you could meet kids and work through  issue based work, and I disagree with disagreed with that. And because of the position you placed that, you know, you tell stories for fun, you know and use movement to enjoy it. I think we need a bit of both.

Steph Edusei  10:16

Yeah, yeah. And it's like say, you know, even when it is narrative, no matter what the narrative is people are feeling emotions as they're as they're watching. And that combination of the music and the movement, I think, just adds to that whole kind of experience that an audience will go with you. So you decide it was at 21. One you wanted to bring together a group to create in a god's was that when you set out starting?

Martin Hilton  10:46

Yeah, it was. So I've had this idea of creating a piece of work for quite a while. So all my work is usually like small sections that are malls, little vignettes, that I put together to make one whole story. So I've been working on something, and it didn't really know it was. And I'm also interested in technology. So we were lucky enough for the one that we got funded by the Esmee. Fairbairn Foundation, just coming out of COVID. And I was supposed to have done was use that funding to look at dance and  technology, and we were gonna use some tech I was going to work with, I'm not gonna say the name, but I was gonna work with a local company. But that's a two prong project. And coming out of COVID, I saw a lot of artists that really needed work. So I call the follow up. And I was like, Well, I don't want to great idea. And I think I don't, I would much rather pay real people pay one company to bring all the tech, they've said they were happy with that that was great. But coming out of COVID, we had George Floyd we had the Black Lives Matter movement. We'd written in the northeast, we create the the activated statement to enact racism. And all these were still in the back of my mind, they were both floating around. And I guess I needed some healing as much as everybody else. And I want you to bring as many back artists could, maybe wanting to work with me as much as they want me to work with them into a studio to create work. That was my motivation behind it. We could have a space where we were. And I don't want to say safe. Because that's that's not what I mean. But it was an environment where we had a majority collective voice. No, not everyone in the studio was back. Majority was and it was a collective voice where we can share aspects of our cultures had a commonality. We weren't having to parts of our culture to fit into a space. It could just be. Yeah, I think that that was the motivation really.

Steph Edusei  13:43

Yeah. And I think that thing, it's something that it's come up a few times in when we've done these events around. The comfort that there is when you are with people and who are the same as you are similar to you. Nobody is the same but similar to you in this. You don't have to explain. You don't have to moderate you don't have to tone down, you don't have this, you can just be you. And actually quite often there's an almost it's a shorthand isn't there that you kind of you can just say something and people know what you mean, I was having a conversation with some women. And we were talking about aunties and, and, and then and we all knew what we meant. Whereas if I sit in a in a with a group of white friends, we talk about aunties, it's a completely different thing altogether. So having that similarity just makes things easier.

Martin Hilton  14:41

Absolutely. It's, I mean, we share, we share so much I mean, within the diversity, it was all being African, Caribbean and then within islands within the Caribbean. You know, there's there's so much diversity within us as black people, but there's so much that it's so common to mean all of us, you know, and we get to share that to learn even, you know, down to the little things where it's like, if I'm if we're rehearsing, and I've given a correction two or three times, and it's not being heard and and he's like, Yo, everybody has a piece of voice, nobody knows. He's like, Yo, that's it, it comes to a point, I was like, I didn't know. So just little things. Whereas if I was in a different studio with someone else, I couldn't do that. But I have to explain and explain because, you know, we, it's so true, it's hard to explain, because I think actually goes beyond it because it goes beyond words, I think there's something that is not quite as tangible, but something very spiritual, about that connection that we have, and those small nuances. That's even a really difficult to explain.

Steph Edusei  15:56

And some people might think it's strange when one of the things I talk about a lot is the value of diversity that I'm talking about actually, does black only space has been really important. But I think what you've got to remember is that for most of us, we, the majority of our lives are spent in white spaces. We're not in black spaces. So it's almost like we've got this kind of release, haven't we, it's that kind of, it's like, it's like you breathe out, you kind of go. I don't I don't have to be that alert and aware all the time. And maybe that's where some of that almost spiritual connection comes from, because it's kinda actually, we're all in that space, we're all experienced that thing of not having to be on alert, not having to be aware all the time.

Martin Hilton  16:43

Yeah, yeah, totally. And I think, you know, I count myself as extremely lucky. You know, I come from a community needs. Community meet. The school I went to was very diverse. When I danced for Phoenix, app in those days, Phoenix Dance Theatre was was Phoenix Dance Company it was an all Black company. And those dancers in that company to Harehills with no, I had grown up with these dancers. For I know, I, I spent years dancing in a Black space. And it was, that's what I was used to, you know, there's nothing quite like it wasn't like going to work, you might as well go out to the pool hall and play pool all day. Because it's not like work when doing automation. Yes, you work hard, because we know that the quality and the level of Phoenix Dance Theatre was is one of the best companies in the country in Europe. So, the quality of the work was absolutely phenomenal. But at the same time, we could work in a fashion where it didn't feel like work. Because you are at home with people that you consider to be family, you know, lots of blood, lots of sweat, lots of tears in between everyone, but it wasn't that emotional drain of constantly having to navigate of constantly, and you know what parking is, like in other spaces, other than our black spaces, you don't realise how much you are looking after everybody else. You have to look after them to they don't feel a way, you know, you have to be almost like you're constantly having to support them, you know, for that for that. And I'm gonna say for, for lack of a better word for their weaknesses, for their lack of experiences. You know, we we constantly make excuses that it's like, you know, you're gonna have to be tired of my angry face. And sorry it’s just, you know, it's one of those things, whereas in a black  space, that angry face is just like, what really? go  crack on. No, it's, yeah, it's more than a cultural thing. But I think we need to, we need to acknowledge that actually. We do a lot of supporting in spaces that are not ours. And we take the burden of it lands on our shoulders, and that's unfair. And I just wanted to create a space where in.

Steph Edusei  19:34

 Great, yeah.

Steph Edusei  19:37

So, you brought together this group of black performers because they weren't all dancers either, were they?

Martin Hilton  19:43

No, no. We have this. We have the same in our studio. There's no such thing as bad dancers, only bad dance teachers. And I think I had to prove that. So yes, we are we are the cast of the awesome dancers. I think one of them was a trained dancer. Somewhere in training. Wayne MacDonald was an actor. I think he was the one with the least amount experience. Yeah, it was a very, was because we tell stories. Oh, yeah, we also had to communicate you would also not come. He hadn't watched dancing community that. So now we work. We work with everyone. That's why taking the studio doesn't have dance to the sky. Oh, yes, we use dance as our base own as our base to tell stories. Well,  but we enjoy being able to do it, how we want to do it, and take away the snobbery of, you know, I trained  in this place and I trained in that place , and I'm this  out on a world saved when we come in the studio. You know, he's like, I don't really care how well you dance. You can't take care of the people you're working with as artists, then maybe you're not, this is not the right company for you.

Steph Edusei  21:06

That's really, really important. And I should I should tell my, one of my colleagues that phrase because he says he can't dance. And I said, somebody's told you that you can't dance when you were young. And he now feels he's mortified if he ever goes anywhere in he has to dance because he because he believes he can't. And I said you may not be conventionally stylish as a dancer, but you if you can move you can you can dance so. So, in regards, how did you? Did you go about? Was it the sort of piece you've choreographed was, I think it was co-created almost wasn't it?

Martin Hilton  21:43

Ermm , ermm, all my work is collaborative. And I think to be honest with you, most choreographers would admit their work is collaborative. When you have a base idea, when you get into the studio, and you work with what you've got, and if if your artistes   are generous, are always offering ideas are  always offering solutions to the problems you face trying to bring your ideas to  the vision. So yeah, of course, everybody will contribute in the making process. But there is there is a there is an idea there is a vision behind all of it. And then it comes to the question is, well, how are we going to represent this and then through conversations through erm  many workshops, we kind of  find a baseline find an idea. And then I guess my my job is to try and tweak that to keep the storyline going and spin up tore that down. You do that a couple more times. You know, it's, it really is more directing ideas. More than going in as a choreographer and telling people put your right foot in your neck out in out, you know, noises. Yeah, so it's definitely collaborative.

Steph Edusei  23:00

And you've got some really hard hitting themes in inner gods. So, let's talk a little bit about some of those themes now. So, what what were the things that you really wanted to examine? When you were creating this?

Martin Hilton  23:14

 Erm, I'm not sure I knew all of it at the time. But we started working on I think some of these themes came out as we worked, but it was a random conversations that we had had with various people, through  lock down, so that that loneliness isolation, the fact that so many business, businesses shut down, especially in the hospitality industry, where people would gather, you know, after work or at weekends, and have a chat, have a drink, have a laugh. So, the lack of being able to do that, I think, that will really hit home for me, because I've got three kids. And we've got a garden. And we were so blessed to have that. Because we had friends that only had one child, and they hadn't played with. It didn't have a garden, you know, they were stuck in high rise buildings. And we felt really blessed that so we could see the pain of some of our friends and what they have to go through. And so that was that was one of the things I'm going to highlight the isolation of it and the mental health issues that went along with that isolation. I mean, people can feel lonely, you know, in a crowded room, but it's increased over time. And you know, those compensations that have been with yourself. And when you're questioning yourself, you're second guessing yourself for your existence. These are all born conversations that I've had with people alcoholism, you know, a lot of people, including myself, talked about how much alcohol consumption had increased during lockdown. You know, and I want you to explore that a little bit. Yeah, and friendship and love, though, you know, the those kinds of archaic kinds of themes that are in every story, and how they panned out. And because it's based on one, one character, and the manifestations of that one character, it was about all of these gods that we have inside of us that create our reality. You know, these gods have I don't know, it's a bit strange, because I'm Jamaican, right. So, I always have this, this thing about dual heritage. They My house is Jamaican. Yeah. And when I go to school, it's England. So, in my house, my name is Winnie. Everybody called me really right. But when I go to school, my name is Martin. So, I have I have almost like, these two personalities. And depending on which environment or situation you put in, depends on whether you need mine or whether you need penny. Yeah. So, for me, and I admit this to myself, for example, two personalities. So, to have this character who conjures up all these people, he's all these people. All these people are him. You know, going back to the I and I . You know, we're all one. We all felt locked down. We all, we all had our little part to play. Live in lockdown, whether we upheld every single rule, or we did a Boris . No, it's Yeah, so I guess, the Oh manifested in the film?

Steph Edusei 27:00

Yeah. I'm just thinking you want to think yourself lucky that Jamaican try being Ghanian, and you're a lot more than three? If you go on a and I've got. But and you're so your main kind of character is is a young black man. Who, through through the piece? Yes, you do see all of that. And I think, I think the fact that you? Well, you can tell me the fact that you chose to have a black man as the main protagonist in the piece, and that you are addressing issues like alcohol dependence, like mental health. Because there are some real issues within our communities around mental health in particular, and black men. And I think you're right, I think locked down for me really highlighted it, I know, you're part of the working group that that takes place for black men. And, and just before the the lockdown, I was trying to set up a group for men to come together to talk black men to come together to talk, and just a space for them. Because there wasn't anything. So, let's just look a little bit at that kind of the choices that you've made around having that black man addressing those themes. Is that because you're a black man? Or was was it was it more complex than that?

Steph Edusei  28:29

It's very personal. You’re right  I'm a black man. You know what one of the first comments that I got when we first screened the movie was, you know, what, isn't that all communities? And white people, white men go through the same thing? And I was like, Absolutely, well, you got lots of places to go. That's the only difference. That is the only difference. You got lots of places to go, you've got lots of bathrooms, you've got lots of help, and we don't. And that's it. It's as simple as that. And he's not waiting for someone else to do it, like you've set up back all year. No we cant wait for someone else to do it. Let's do it. And let's do it as as creative artists, as opposed to a formal kind of group where I've got to get someone in who know is qualified to deal with the trauma. You know, I'm not I'm not a doctor, I'm not qualified to talk about mental health in any other aspect through creativity. And that was the tool I used to kind of bring some black men who are all creative individuals into a space to say let's tell a story. And let's have a look at this. And through the development and revising many workshops that we did to try and find the root of the story of what we wanted to actually say. We alI realised we had much more to say about it to each other, or each other in that room. So literally, if we never produced the film The journey was enough. And I can't stress how much the journey and the creation of the time we spent together how much that was healing in itself as opposed to coming up with products that then don't have these arguments as practitioners as artists, you know, product versus process you know, but I think we managed to have a great process and come up with a great product you know, we got you know, artists not 100% No artist create great work every single time sometimes you're gonna create a dot you know, what this way it's, it's very it was and because of all the issues and the way we worked, the each section is so very different. There isn't one genre throughout the whole way it just painting taking taking pain point. Because that's, that's, that's who we are. That's the environment you live in. You know, everything's different. You put your headphones on listen to music, you when you go shopping in town, you're listening to what Italy you have to listen to Ed telling you that she's cool. I you know what I had to get excited with that one.

Steph Edusei  31:42

But just to pick up on something that you said earlier about, it's no different. I think it is. And I think this is this is why it is different. So yeah, we all have to deal with work, and sometimes no money and we all had to deal with lockdown. And we all had to deal with the isolation and we had birthed if you just think about 2020 We also had to deal with George Floyd's murder. And that hit us as black people differently to the way to white people. And it was built upon decades and centuries of discrimination and abuse, and marginalisation. So yes, things are we encounter similar things, but it's building on the kind of trauma that we've had from existing in the environment in which we exist. And I think it's what I find really interesting is when I talk to people who were born overseas, and now I live in this country, and they'll say to me things, like, I didn't realise I was black until I came to the UK. Yeah, so the issues that we see as part of our are, this is just what it's like, it's not what it's like this, this is what this is, what the environment around us creates. So then all of those day, the crime things that hit us and affect us are built on top of that, and therefore it's a lot worse.

Steph Edusei  33:10

Yeah, I think the conditions in the circumstance or the  trauma is the trauma is absolutely on a different level. But what I meant with me by saying to that elderly white man and said that to me is like, I can't talk to you about your tone. You're telling me you're hurting? I'm gonna take your hand. He's reasons for hurting. I don't know. So it was really me saying that is almost like you got head injury you got a  head injury whether you slipped and tripped and banged your head on the wall, or  that somebody hit you with a baseball bat?  feel That injury, so I don't have time to argue with them. Or go into detail. I'm not having that comment. I think you're absolutely right don’t get me  wrong. But it's not conversation I’m going to take when somebody comes to me with that, and this, you know, very clearly we're talking about I'm not going to engage,  the right properly ? Please hold that. We're not dealing with that now. So it wasn't that I did it. It's not that I disagree with you. So, it's just not a conversation I'm prepared to engage with when you come to see my my work. Oh,

Steph Edusei  34:37

yeah. Now what about me, isn't it that just is annoying.

Steph Edusei  34:43

Sorry, before you it's almost like almost for me, it's almost like doing a performance and I'm physically performing on stage. And an audience member jumping up and going look at me. And trying to dance in front of me is never gonna happen. And, you know, I'm saying is like, there's a time and a place for that. And we've carved out each chunk of space and time for us. And luckily, I'm in control of this narrative, and you are not. So, you can take that somewhere else. And that's not me being out, will it be really clear because we say we do lots of work with this perspective. But unlike gluten, so we're not when we're not saying white people can't come work with us. Not saying why people can't be part of this, but you have to understand the Black People  perspective , because  growing up we know, we have a lot of white friends  who have grown up around and amongst our code to do who understand the law, you know, and it's like, I can turn around to similar people being good friends, to me from years up . And go sorry, this is about our culture and don't anymore, because we have so much trauma, I've got to find, I've got to find ground for me personally, and I understand people disagree. I'm in control of the narrative. But it's my work, it's my space. And it's just take it is me, taking ownership of that. I think a lot of a lot of other organisations, a lot of gatekeepers, hate the fact that we can turn around and just say as it is, I own a narrative.  it doesn’t matter if give me work. Because I've grown up in a creative environment, I've grown up in an environment where they innovate, innovate, Phoenix dance, they innovated at Harehills school, they innovated at the northern school contemporary dance innovation within the art sector. I will create something I saw I'm not. And yes, I want to get paid, and everybody needs to eat food on the table. But if we wait, and wait, and wait for that handout, is never gonna happen. I'm one of the most experienced Black artists in the Northeast in terms of contemporary dance. I can get a job I started picnic. That's why I'm the founding director of my own company. I couldn't wait for for handouts. I couldn't wait for to to authenticate my life, my existence and a bit better now.

Steph Edusei  37:18

Now, while I completely empathise with you, because one of the reasons I stopped on my route was because I thought, probably gonna end up being a waitress for the rest of my life. If I do this, and I gave up on my performance streams, I've since gone back to it. But but because that was my reality in the early 90s, was that was just not going to happen because of my ethnicity. And I think it's really I mean, I completely agree with you. And I think it's really interesting as well, because what would be the reaction if, if a black person went into a performance piece, where white people were performing and said, Well, it's the same for us as well, you know, but you haven't featured us in this. Because that, in effect, what they're doing isn't, it's saying, Well, you know, you're not so special. So, what I'm going to invite people to do if they've got any questions or anything they'd like to say, and I will say as well, I am going to share the links to the documentary. And I'm going to share a bit of the documentary in a moment, and to the performance piece itself. So if you haven't seen it, you have to watch it. But there's a piece and when we first met in person, because we've kind of been around virtually things for a while on the first met in person, and you shared the documentary with me. And it was this piece towards the end of the documentary that really hit me. And I'd like to share it with people if you can, if people will be a little bit taller and talk me

Steph Edusei  38:44

smart and it said the thought process behind it and the journey through the central characters mental health state, I was like, Well, I can identify with every single part of it, I can identify with the loneliness issues, I can identify with the, with the anger issues, I can identify with, you know, the whole picture that's painted through the piece, I get so attached to him going on to the next stage because we all want to go somewhere. And because he's bathed in light, it's the light at the end of the tunnel. For me. I always say that no matter how bad things may get, no matter how bad things may seem, there is always that light at the end of the tunnel. So even on my darkest days, whatever I've been through once when I see the light at the end of the tunnel, I can head towards the light and I get better. I've been right at the edge looking for that light. And I've gone through to the next stage.

Martin Hilton  39:47

It felt very powerful because metal is something that I've been struggling with for two years. Sometimes we have voices that tried to push me down. Then I was like No listen and push myself and you In looking at this piece, that I'm just giving you a lot of memories, to where I was in the past and how I managed to build myself up, even your chef alone, you can still push yourself.

Steph Edusei  40:12

Black men's mental health. Absolutely. We don't talk about enough within our community. And we don't do enough within our community, hence plumbing walking, it's so important to have that in there. Yeah. Yeah, we are spoken about, well spoken on our behalf of, but we don't do that much talking ourself. People will say, Yeah, Black men need to talk on Black men. And it's true, we Black men do need to talk. But we don't always get a chance to. And what I would love is for anyone that watches these few short minutes, to like, wow, I never knew, I never knew the struggle. I never knew. So much could be going on in it could be the blink of an eye. Or it could be like, say over decades of shit that they've had to take. If if they can take away a snapshot, then I think that the video will have done its job.

Steph Edusei  41:37

Yeah, so you probably see that got me a bit emotional. And I've watched it a few times now. And it always hits me. And I think it's just, you know, thank you to the people who speak now just about their honesty there. But, to me, that kind of says it all. It's it's like we were saying it's not just about that incident, it's not just about what's going on now. It's about everything that's gone before, and how that impacts on us.

Steph Edusei  42:11

You were touching online earlier, by the content we live in? And yeah, it's I mean, how do you explain the hundreds of years of neglect an honour that goes with that, you know, and I think we just have to keep evolving, navigating our way through it, and make the change for ourselves. No, it's, for example, at your gateway now that we're looking at. Me, I'm going to wrong terminology, I know, it former trauma-based workforce store, how we how we as an organisation from and how we work with that understanding everybody who come through our door. So that's, that's the next thing for us as an organisation that we want to look at, because is a huge is a huge thing, and it's how you address it. And for us here, for me, it's about just taking everything step at a time and, you know, giving thanks for the things that we are in control of, we can take we can impact. And you know, I'm not gonna go as far as to say, accept or understand the challenges that are maybe too big for us, at this very moment may not be too big for us to deal with tomorrow. We'll do what we can today and see what see where we're at.

Steph Edusei  43:45

And I think that being able to use something like dance and performance to, to actually the conference and explore what are some really difficult and challenging topics and hopefully bring them to people like say, you know, that are older, white man who might not have have experience or even had to think about any of that before, I think is really important thing to be able to do because some people are listened to stuff like this, a lot of people won't, some people will will watch your performance, and they'll they'll feel and see the stuff that comes from that. But but also I think there's you know, the more different ways in which we can bring and have that conversation so that people can engage with it the better. So be really great to kind of see what comes next and what comes out of it.

Steph Edusei  44:41

You know, I think it's it's really a strange place to be because I think it's a quite well, yeah, so there's no real platform. Said I call it a piece of work. No, I think the artists done an amazing jobs and they We only see integrity. For there's nowhere to platform that work. So there's going to be a small handful that we'll get to see. And that's a shame. And so it's like, what do we got a platform or there's no way we got ourselves where it's our platform. So, you being part of that, I allow me to come in. And today, I totally get that for you. But we have to build about on networks at all platforms. Because there will be no accolades for inner gods. The shame someone performances equals performance, because the main character is absolutely phenomenal. Milan, the final products for two days of filming to go through a range of health emergency children, every section, as an artist will not going to work. But how do we how are we going to recognise his work in that? How are we going to celebrate it? So, I think this is just the beginning. It raises a lot more questions and answers, I know that. But I think the challenge is on the talent is on me, you know how we need to support, support other artists support individual artists support organisations, and we need our own black. Otherwise, how are we going to be so

Steph Edusei  46:29

I'm one of the things I will say that I do know, because I'm a bit nerdy like this. So, I do occasionally look at where the podcast is listened to. And it is listened to in a number of countries around the world. So, you never know what you know, where I will say I'll put the links in the show notes and things you never know who's gonna watch it and who's going to pick up on it. So, you know, if you've, if you've got the platform, then give it a platform because it's well worth it. So, in terms of in terms of the piece itself, and then I'd say the themes that are

Steph Edusei  47:02

that are embedded in it. And

Steph Edusei  47:05

we we've got that issue of the mental health, we've talked about addiction. There's some, the other bits, so let's let's end on a positive note around that hope and joy and happiness. Talk to us a little bit about that.

Steph Edusei  47:21

You know, okay, I've got I've got to talk about sections and completely rush by because it is it is it is that that community it was it was that, that enjoyment of and I'm gonna say black men, but you know, black men and women, because I've seen some phenomenal female players, right? So, it's not exclusive to men, that doesn't. That joy of being able to sit and engage conversations joke laughter entertainment with each other. And as a child, that's what I saw. My father, aunties and uncles, is that that was the way they came together. So, for me especially, that's, that's, that's the fun side of it. And basic was excellent skillet, cussing and swearing and all the rest of it. Please, pure jokes is all jokes. Well, that was in the context of the Windrush scandal here in the UK. Now, which I think we were talking about this had my mother, father refused to do more than upon, got her papers, they couldn't be sending me home, you know, it was one of those, it was one of those. And just being able to just be able to enjoy that, that was a great part of, of growing up and being around elders and community so and then towards the end of the beat, where he brings the covers of all of his friends doing the electric slide. And just, he just wants to have fun, he wants to enjoy the love. Everybody's having a good time. You know, even those guy and there's always one who don't know, the electric side is always watching and if you look closely, you'll find him you know, in that video, you find him How about my sister but yeah, he brings that in, you know, it's but then he teaches the alcohol, I don't even know is the among consumers classes. And I think again, that's when everybody disappears. But like I say, in the documentary, but this time he gets an opportunity to leave. He's not confined by anything. So, this time it gives you the opportunity to leave. And the mean the question was, Is he leaving always arriving somewhere else? Now that and that, that for me, that was So I was hoping the question would be at the end is like, where's he going to? Is he dead? Is he alive? And then people have asked me all kinds of questions about the end, this abstract is for you to make up your mind, for one thing, really, really clear that and it's a journey, he has to take on his, whatever, whatever, wherever, wherever days.

Steph Edusei  50:21

Yeah, and I love that. And I think that whole, you know, in the context of the pandemic, and the lock downs and things and the fact that it does all happen in that one hub, doesn't it? It's all, it's all in that confined space. But actually, we've all now that we're moving in and have moved out of that we do all have that choice as to, you know, are we leaving? Are we going into something else I love, I love the way we describe that actually, are we are we leaving something? are we stepping into something new? And if we're stepping into something new, then what is that? And how do we make sure that that is? Right. And I would add to that, that it has an impact. Because I think as it personally there's something about doesn't have to be huge, but we should all have an impact. Well, we all do have an impact. And we've got a choice over what that impact is. And whether it's positive or negative, and whether it's big or small, and but we should be, we should think about what that we shouldn't just wonder about the place and having an impact. We should do that consciously. Martin, thank you so much. I'm gonna say I'm going to I'm going to share the link so that people can can watch the piece and the documentary and I think you know, I really highly recommend that you watch both or just watch the piece because think the documentary in itself is incredible. And, and I will certainly be shouting to try and get more people to watch the piece and to try and get it the platform that it deserves. But thank you so much for your time today. And as I say for people, you know if you are listening or watching this afterwards, please like and subscribe and if you have any suggestions for topics for black all year, then please let me know it's black allyear@outlook.com. So, thank you so much for your time, everybody and I hope to see you soon. Take care everyone.